NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors. Pam Mueller === [00:00:00] Cara: Welcome to today's episode of floductivity. We dive into all things dreams. My guest today is Pam Mueller. She is a dream expert, spiritual director, author, and podcaster. [00:00:12] Cara: She has been learning and working in the field of dreams for 20 years, she is passionate about engaging people's curiosity. She sees clients one-on-one and frequently presents workshops, lectures, and dream sharing groups all over the country. Pam's book 33 ways to work with your dreams. A beginner's guide to dreamwork is available on Amazon and through her website. Sweet Georgia, Pam. [00:00:36] Cara: I love this conversation so much, and I cannot wait to dive in. [00:00:40] Cara: Welcome to floductivity, a place to inspire and empower beings to embrace self-love and self-development for an achievable balance of productivity. I share different ways to come back to your intuition through spirituality, self care, human design, cycle planning, wellness, and everything in between. [00:00:59] Cara: Thank you so much [00:01:00] for joining me this week. If this is your first time. Welcome. And if you've been here with me before. Thank you so much for coming back. I'm so excited to join you in this journey. As we learn together. [00:01:12] Cara: hi, Pam. Welcome to the show. [00:01:14] Pam: Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited. [00:01:17] Cara: I always love to dive into my first question, and that is, what are your favorite self-care practices in your daily or weekly routine? [00:01:27] Pam: Ooh, that's a good question. well, sleep is very important to me, um, for dreamwork purposes, but also for like overall health maintenance. So, my sleep routine, while it's not. Real strict. I do not stick to a very, I'm not very disciplined in sticking to a routine, but it is important that I. You know, seven to nine hours of sleep. [00:01:51] Pam: So that is one of my health practices. I also find it really necessary for me to make sure that I get alone time, even though I [00:02:00] work from home. The other family members in my house create a constant stir of energy. And so at some point in the day, I will isolate myself to a darkened room. And just catch my breath and touch base with like soul Pam and how we're doing, and then rejoin the day. [00:02:18] Pam: So I need my alone time. [00:02:20] Cara: I love both of those things. I strongly agree with both of those, especially the alone time. it's very underrated. I think some people, And when I say some people, me, three years ago, I was like so busy in the hustle and bustle of the world. I was a hair stylist, so I always had this energy like attaching to me and like I was always afraid to be alone with myself. [00:02:42] Cara: And then when I brought that practice in, it changed my life of being alone. like every night my husband gets home from work. Bye. I'm shutting my door. I don't want anybody in. I'm gonna have my headphones so I don't hear you. I don't wanna smell you. I don't wanna see you. So [00:02:58] Pam: when I get [00:03:00] that time to myself and it's dark and there's no input coming in, it's easy to see how performative my day has become. And so it's nice to do that reset. It's really nice. So, [00:03:12] Cara: But yeah, I think it's really underrated and I think anyone that has an energy in their house besides themselves, especially with children, it could be scary at first being alone with yourself, but once you see the power in that connection with. How am I feeling? What do I need? Like that should be the initial step before any self-care because sometimes we think like, I need a bath, or I need to work out, or I need to do this, but like what if, what if it was a part of our routine or ritual that we sat in and said, what do I need today? [00:03:44] Cara: What is my self-care today? And I think it could change so many people because they're doing things that are expectations of maybe other people. [00:03:53] Pam: Mm-hmm. Yep. It's very subtle, right? Even if it's like, I'm gonna go take a bath, you're like, and have a [00:04:00] playlist and listen to a podcast. You know, all of that is great, but it's more input, it's more data. And so, I'm a, I'm a highly sensitive person, which means I process data more deeply and I take in more data and I can't turn that off. [00:04:14] Pam: So I have to remove the data from my life. Yeah, [00:04:17] Cara: I mean, that kind of goes to the piece of your human design, looking at the energy centers in your human design and [00:04:23] Pam: Ooh, tell me. Yes. [00:04:25] Cara: so I was saving it towards the end. But I think it's really important that it comes up now is because there's two energy centers that I also have open, and I find that especially the emotional center, it is, the triangle that is, if you're looking at it to the farthest, right, that emotional center, once I realized when that's open, are so susceptible to the energies around us, the emotions around us, and so was one of those where I was like, I'm such an emotional person, but when I'm by myself, I'm not. [00:04:59] Pam: [00:05:00] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:05:00] Cara: realized that power of, I didn't know that energetic boundary had to set that before going into those spaces or how to clear that energy after going into those spaces. And that is exactly why I got burnt out of being a hairstylist. And so looking at that piece, yours is also open. [00:05:22] Cara: And so I think that's a, a big piece If anybody has their emotional center open, [00:05:26] Cara: you are highly sensitive to other people's emotions and so taking a moment, leaving any sort of energy that's not yours and saying, is this my emotion or is this someone else's? And then from there to realize we have the power to say, Nope, it's not mine, I'm going to let that go. [00:05:43] Cara: because if not, we're gonna reflect back that same emotion to someone. So if someone's coming at us, [00:05:50] Pam: Right, [00:05:50] Cara: reflect back that anger because we don't know what else to do with it. We don't. We wanna get that. We have this open and then we're like, oh no, I don't want this. I'm gonna give it right back to [00:06:00] you. [00:06:00] Cara: And then it's this ping pong of everybody's emotionally overwhelmed. [00:06:04] Pam: Oh my God. Uh, you're opening this amazing topic can of worms, but it's so good, juicy, uh, for me. You know, the thing that I've noticed about the emotional piece is so high sensitivity is, um, it's an inherited trait, right? So there are people in my family who are also highly sensitive and I'm super duper curious. [00:06:24] Pam: And so I'm like, how does it show up differently for you? And what is that about, you know, for you? And here's what I've. Introverted, energetic, emotional absorbers. Me, I will walk into a room and the emotional spike in the room, right? Whatever it happens to be or the, the, I call it emotional triage, who who needs the most emotionally will hit me, right? [00:06:47] Pam: And I will start to feel that as an introvert, I will hold it. An extrovert, my brother will put it back out into the room so it gets amplified. But as an introvert, my response, which is not [00:07:00] a good one, is to absorb it and hold it in case it comes up. Because I'll be ready to share that emotional burden with that person, but I'm absorbing it in the meantime, and I can't relax and I can't enjoy myself at a party because I'm worried about so-and-so over in the corner who really doesn't seem like they're having a good time and maybe came in with some repressed anger or whatever, whatever. [00:07:22] Pam: but you're right. Like it gets reflected back into the room. In my experience with the extroverted people who are like, does anybody notice this elephant in the room? You know, they're gonna call it out. [00:07:34] Cara: Yeah, and I think Emotional center is colored in. It doesn't mean you're not an empath, but I do feel like when it's open, you have more of that empathy. You hold on and you're like, how can I. How can I help this person? And especially if you have a piece of that spiritual, you know, nature, you're in the spiritual realm of wanting to be able to help people. [00:07:56] Cara: But you know, I'm sure being in the spiritual world, [00:08:00] you realize that holding onto things that don't serve us will also affect us. Again, like bringing it back to being a hairstylist. Like I would lose sleep over what my clients were telling me in my chair because I would hold so much space for them. [00:08:15] Cara: And then looking back, it's like I would. Have that energy of that one client and then I would let it leak to the next client and to the next client. So not only was I hurting myself, I would feel like I was hurting my other clients. yeah, it's just as we kind of build up our intuition, build this relationship with ourselves, how can we have that energetic protection? [00:08:37] Cara: Cuz that's real. It's real. It's like as you learn to build that, because it's not like one day you wake up and you have this. Shield of protection. You're like, oh, I'm gonna do it. And it's there. It's a practice, right? And the more you practice, the stronger it gets and the more you see the benefits of it. [00:08:53] Cara: And then not only that, it's okay, I walked in this room, I felt this heavy energy. Now it's time for me to let this go. [00:09:00] This isn't serving me. what can I do to let that go? And then, so it's building those practices of saying, oh wait, this isn't mine to carry. I need to let this go. And holding it on to. someone else's heavy emotions is actually making it harder for them to process it because you're having this energetic cord. Right? if we're trying to be, empathetic, the best thing we could do is kind of, hold that space for them, see if we can help them, and then cut the cord so that they have the power to release that energetic, burden, right? [00:09:31] Pam: Right. That's right, that's right. And this actually gets a little bit into, the, the work that I do. So my, uh, hairdresser environment, if you will, was the elementary school classroom. Right. I was an elementary school teacher right outta college for like seven years. I just abs I was just an absorber of everything. [00:09:47] Pam: And I was really great when I was in the room with the kids by myself because I was with them emotionally and I could conduct it like an orchestra, you know, and I knew where everybody was and how they were feeling and all of those things. But, [00:10:00] but beyond just being in a room and sharing the space with emotionally, open children. [00:10:05] Pam: The teaching classroom I burnt out of it as soon as I stepped into it. Right. It was really hard for me. several years later, my journey takes me into dreamwork and eventually takes me into a training in spiritual direction, getting a certificate in, like, holy listening, how do I hold space for someone to sit and be vulnerable in their story, to tell their story and offload it? [00:10:32] Pam: And then how do I become a trusted listener so that they know that they're safe? Because I'm not gonna pick their story up and try to fix it. I'm not gonna run away with it. I'm not gonna bring my own messy experience into their story that they've just offloaded into the room with us. So I was trained as I was doing this spiritual direction work, I was learning how to, create a safe container. [00:10:57] Pam: How to be compassionate with [00:11:00] someone in their experience and how to notice when I start leaning in too far and stepping in and illegitimately feeling things that are theirs to feel. And it has helped in every other aspect of my life, learning that skill, right? Because now I can trust my empathy. As opposed to being like dragged through all the waves of emotion by my empathy now it's a tool that I can use. [00:11:27] Cara: Yeah, I love that. And I Fullheartedly agree in that. When I started diving into human design, I loved it because it can show pieces of a person they might not see themselves. So like you knowing that like you are energetically built to absorb people's emotions, like that makes people feel seen and heard. [00:11:46] Cara: But where I was having that issue with it was sometimes people don't need to be told what to. In the sense, and so I am, coach. And I did not know the [00:12:00] skill to kind of not just say, Ooh, you know, what would help you? You know what I mean? And so this is taking me fully out of my comfort zone. [00:12:07] Cara: I feel like I'm good at holding space for people, but I also want to give them. tangible thing that they can do. And so I'm trying to bridge that gap of like, what's a coach? What's a strategist? And how can I meet in the middle? How can I do a little bit of both? I don't think people realize that. Being a coach, like they should be certified because so many people think they're a coach in what they're doing and they're not. And it took me going through a whole certification process to realize that unfortunately anybody can call them a coach. in the US there's no standard, like anybody can call themselves a coach. [00:12:42] Cara: But in the UK they just passed that you have to be, um, certified And the US is about five years behind the uk. So it is going in that direction that there is gonna be some sort of regulation. But I think that's so important to say that. If you are trusting someone to be in that space with you, there should [00:13:00] be some sort of training behind it so that you're not putting someone in a spot where you're not actually helping them. [00:13:08] Cara: Right? [00:13:09] Pam: And it's, it's the case of like, when you know better, you do better, right? I didn't know that I was missing the skill of holding the safe container for somebody, right? So my work started with dreams and I was just like, anybody wanna talk about dream interpretation? I'm just interested. Right? So I'll sit. [00:13:24] Pam: In the playground and we'll just play with it, you know, with anybody. And, when I first started doing it, I started a meetup cuz I just had exhausted my family and friends. They didn't wanna talk about dreams with me anymore. And so I was like, well there are some people out there that want to, we would meet in the Whole Foods dining room once a month and eventually it became once every twice a month. [00:13:46] Pam: And we would just meet and sit in the public area. And share dreams and share our thoughts about dreams. And I didn't know any better. And it was just a l it was a learning phase for me to start to recognize like, oh, oh, what they are bringing to the [00:14:00] table is really vulnerable storytelling, and they don't know what they're sharing about themselves until we start to really, you know, dive into it. [00:14:09] Pam: And so, That's what the, the evolution for me was recognizing that what I was doing, was probably fine, but there was a better way to do it. Right. So, yeah. I'm with you. It's like when you know better, you do better. And when there are these programs to train you to certify your progress, that's worth something. [00:14:28] Cara: It is, and I mean, people are literally putting their life in your hands. And so it's, it's important to one, find the person that really speaks to you that you feel comfortable with, but you know, know that there is a reason that there are programs that certify people. And you know, I do hope that regulation comes. [00:14:45] Cara: To the US cuz I can see, you know, there can be a little bit of that detrimental work. And I mean, the goal is to , help someone find a better path in their life. Coach them into being the best version of themselves. Know you touched a little bit about [00:15:00] what brought you to the field of dreams. [00:15:02] Cara: Um, but yeah, is there any more that you can share with listeners about like what opened your eyes about it and more of that evolution with it? [00:15:11] Pam: yeah, for me it was a, it was really a personal, crisis in faith, I guess. I mean, we're gonna bring spirituality into this and ultimately I'm spiritually independent. but when I. Was in the teaching field, I was totally burnt out. I was like, you know what, it's fine cuz we're gonna start our family soon and we'll just have children and I'll be at home and it'll be, I was okay with it. [00:15:32] Pam: But when we started to try to, um, start our family, it wasn't working for us. And so there was this intersection of I don't, this career field I've chosen is not working for me and I have to get out And, and a for infertility experience, which was traumatic, and isolating. And I experienced five years of trying to conceive and then we, we eventually got fertility assistant. [00:15:59] Pam: So we [00:16:00] have a brilliant son who's 13 now. Good lord, help me and lovely. but then I also experienced miscarriages, three miscarriages after our son. And so, Ultimately was like an eight, nine year journey of infertility and experiencing this emotional crisis of what does it mean if I'm not going to become a mother? [00:16:19] Pam: What does that mean? at the same time, going also, I don't know what I wanna do in the world. So for me, I. Looking at my dreams when I was in my, what I would consider like the darkest hour of isolation for me, where I didn't want to talk about infertility with anybody because it was horribly depressing at the time. [00:16:39] Pam: I was just kind of in the throes of the dark night of the soul journey for me, and I started to pretend that dreams would make sense. Like, oh yeah, what if I could make sense of this weird stuff that happens at night? Those are things I could talk about because they felt safer. Low and behold, I started Googling what my dream's been. [00:16:57] Pam: I started getting dream dictionaries and going like, [00:17:00] oh, well wait a minute. That actually, well, that makes a little bit of sense. That was weird. And then it started happening over and over, and I started thinking like, there's no way that dreams can actually be helpful. Nobody's talking about this. [00:17:10] Pam: Like there's no way that that's an actual source of inner wisdom. Surely that's not true. And then it just kept being true. And I found that I was good at it. I started to get really good at recognizing symbols and the metaphor that was being su, you know, presented and people, cuz I was still at the time in the classroom, people started coming to me. [00:17:30] Pam: Teachers after hours would be like, Hey Pam, I had a weird dream and it just became this playground and it was a. For my regular life and a playground and this like whole new part of me was birthed into being while I was trying to start my family. So, I just went down the rabbit hole while I was. [00:17:50] Pam: Distracting myself from what was going on in real life. And then over time, it solidified into this muscle that I had strengthened, and I was like, [00:18:00] no, no, I'm good at this. Oh no. This is the way that I can really sit with people and hear them and show them their own inner brilliance. So I fell in love with like every aspect of it. [00:18:12] Pam: and then I was like, I'll just be a dream interpreter. And people were like, Pam, that's not a thing. Is that a thing? Can you do that? And I'm like, I don't know, but I'm gonna, I don't know. But that's just, that's, that's clearly I'm. Going. I found my way to spiritual direction because it was like the next step was, oh, not only am I listening to dreams, but people started to say things like, okay, I've never told anybody this before, but. [00:18:39] Pam: So when you start talking about your nighttime dreams, which you're like, I don't know, I had it last night, whatever, whatever. And you come at it from this real playful place, eventually you get into also, one time I dreamt it and then it came true. What the hell does that mean? You know? So people like follow their own path and start [00:19:00] sharing dreams and end up sharing some deep mystical experiences. [00:19:03] Cara: Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing all that and being open and honest about your. Experience with it. I found in, you know, doing this podcast, so many people have transmuted a hard time into something beautiful and inspiring and purposeful. And so one, thank you for being here and doing that because to show people that you know, we. [00:19:27] Cara: All go through hard times, but where can we find the hope or the, the thing that's going to get us through it? And so it's beautiful that you found dreams in that and that you found that like purpose behind it. And then the other piece is how beautiful it is. That when you decided you were gonna do this and people are like, you can't do this, that you took control and said like, I know this isn't the normal expectations, but this is where my soul is being led to. [00:19:54] Cara: This is where my purpose feels fulfilled. I'm gonna keep following that. And [00:20:00] so I think so many people are trying to look outside of themselves to follow their. Other people are doing or other people's line of action. And there's so much power to show when someone is just like, no, I know in my soul that I'm meant to follow these steps, these breadcrumbs towards something bigger. [00:20:17] Cara: that's inspires inspiring and powerful and you know, I love that. [00:20:22] Pam: Yeah. Thank you. yeah, my dad always said like, people tend to talk about, like, at the end of their retirement or whatever, they tend to talk about their path as if it was like linear the whole way. He said, it's never, it's a ping, it's a pinball machine. One thing just pushes you over to the next thing, and then suddenly you do this other thing and, and it's only in hindsight that you can look and see the path or the trajectory, right? [00:20:45] Cara: It's, it's like picking up the tools that are gonna help you towards the end, like towards what you're doing. And that's, that's a lesson that I've recently come to realize was I kept saying, okay, [00:21:00] this is gonna be the thing. This is the thing that I'm gonna make money. You know, I'm, I've been trying to find this. [00:21:04] Cara: What am I supposed to do in this life? And it's not about, Boom, I'm there. I'm in it. Like that's not the case. It's like, what are these little tools and what can take me? honestly, looking back, my own ego was blocking me from the beginning because I said from the beginning, I'm not working one-on-one with people. [00:21:22] Cara: Again. I was a hair stylist. I burnt out. I'm never doing that again. But here's the caveat of all that. Since I've started this whole thing, I do podcasts. I meet with people weekly, and we talk about their business, and they're like, you need to be a coach. And I'm like, Nope, not doing that. I'm not doing that. [00:21:41] Cara: And then I. I'm in a coaching program and I still even said, no, I'm not going to be a one-on-one coach. I want to take this tool and have it something else. And then once I started to do my practicum sessions and I started connecting with people and I started to see my true gifts, my intuitive gifts, helping people come through, I'm [00:22:00] like, dang it, ego, you've been trying to keep me. [00:22:02] Cara: I think keep me safe from. That boundary issue that I had before. But the difference is, is I know how to set those boundaries. Now I know how to do those [00:22:11] Pam: Right. Yes. [00:22:13] Cara: And so that's brilliant that your dad said, because it, I, it isn't like this one thing's gonna get you there. It's like, what tool can you take now? [00:22:20] Cara: What's gonna help support you in this moment? [00:22:23] Cara: Are you ready to make a real change in your life? Here are just a few benefits on working with me as a certified holistic coach. Together we gain insight into your authentic self. We explore your design with modalities like human design, cycle vitality, and astrology. Angel, gain a deeper understanding of your unique. [00:22:45] Cara: Challenges and your purpose in life. Together we work on improving relationships. Understanding your own design helps you communicate more effectively with other people, build stronger relationships, and have more fulfilling [00:23:00] connections around you. We increase your productivity by aligning your work with your Burke, but you're a natural rhythms and your strengths. [00:23:07] Cara: You'll be able to work smarter and not. Achieve your goals and live with a greater ease in your life. We work together on reducing stress and overwhelm. By working with me, you'll learn how to manage your energy, reduce stress, and cultivate more balance in your life. We work on a more authentic. Life. When you're aligned with your unique design, you'll feel more confident, empowered, and fulfilled in every area of your life. [00:23:34] Cara: Those are the benefits. With working with me as a certified intuitive life coach, my focus is not telling people about their human design. Spa vitality, or even astrology. Instead, my role is to help you discover and align with your desires and take aligned action based on how you operate. It is time for you to look within at how powerful you are and welcome your intuitive intelligence. [00:23:58] Cara: If you wanna work with me, head [00:24:00] to kara dempsey.com/offerings. [00:24:03] Pam: Yeah. And that's the last thing that ego wants is like, no, no, like, show me the trajectory. Explain it logically first, and then, and then we'll follow that path, right? But there's no, there's no logic to the, the intangible learning to listen to your instinct or learning to listen to your gut or your. [00:24:22] Pam: Emotions or what, like really makes you passionate or what really feeds your soul. All that stuff is invisible. And so it's like having to practice listening in a different way. like, what feels good today? Or, what's the next step that isn't gonna answer the big question and put like stability and security as the number one thing, but, but what's intriguing me, right? [00:24:48] Pam: And just follow that little breadcrumb. Yeah. Yeah. But it's counterintuitive. I mean, it's funny that that's counterintuitive is the word, but it's ego, it's counter ego. [00:24:58] Cara: I know it's hard when we [00:25:00] get our, in our own ways, but when we take a moment and we take that time to reflect with ourselves, by ourselves, that's when the true intuition comes through. But we have to like make time for it. If we're sitting there scrolling on, you know, social media or what binging on tv, it's probably not gonna come through. [00:25:19] Pam: Yep, yep. Right. True. [00:25:20] Cara: so dreams have been a huge piece of, I think, my spiritual growth. But you know, it's been more recently that I've dove into this whole like spiritual awakening piece, I guess you can say. But looking back as a child, I've had so many things happen to me within my dreams, and so that's kind of where it comes from. [00:25:41] Cara: And so one of 'em was a reoccurring dream that I had as a kid, and it kept happening. It kept happening. It was a scary dream. I could feel it and then it happened. It happened different than in my dream, and I will say the dream that kept happening was changing. And so that's like one piece of my dreams that I feel like have [00:26:00] had this spiritual connection. [00:26:01] Cara: Another piece is I've had many people who have just passed away come to me. In my dreams. And I mean, one instance, there was a girl I was friends with in middle school and she was missing, and she came to me in my dream as a child younger than when I was friends with her. And when I saw her, I knew in my bones like. They were not going to find her alive and that she was saying that she was okay. it's like, one, it scares me a little bit. Two, how do I transmute this into something that I can use and like, do you have any, like insight? Um, but I've had many dreams where I've dreamt it and it's come true. The context of the dream could be scary, but when I woke up I was like, oh, well I'm not scared about this at all. So I do feel like I have the discernment is this is gonna be a good thing or this is gonna be a bad thing. But yeah, I would love your [00:26:58] Pam: powerful gift. Yeah, no, for [00:27:00] sure. I mean, I have lots and lots of thoughts Of course. So trying to, trying to capture them and get 'em out is always the challenge for me. Well, I mean, what a powerful experience this is the thing about dreams, especially for people who are intuitive and spiritual in. [00:27:17] Pam: Already dreams can validate that for you. And the, the thing about them is it is an intimate, undeniable encounter that you didn't seek out. Right? It is an you are encountering source, whatever that is for you in your own experience. That is not for anyone else because it, because it was experiential for. [00:27:42] Pam: And so for me, it creates that not only the validation of your intuitive nature, but also a direct connection with an very personalized source for you, right? So my, the way that I approach those [00:28:00] experiences is to encourage people to do something. in the inner realm, in your imagination, where the dream happens, where your meditation and prayer happens, go to that same inner landscape, revisit the dream, and then, oh, how do I say this? [00:28:17] Pam: And then have a dialogue with whatever sources for you. Or ask the question of like, who are you? What is source, right? So you're starting to create a bridge of communication that is intimately personal for you and your higher realm, the holy whatever. That's what I call it. [00:28:37] Pam: when I have a dream of somebody who's passed and they come to me in an experience and I'm like, oh, hello, visitation, hello, beautiful soul. [00:28:45] Pam: I will then close my eyes, go into that space and just be in the presence with not just me and that soul, but the dream maker as well. There's three of us. In that space for me. so that's, that's how I handle that, is I do some sort of blessing, some sort of [00:29:00] response, but in the same place that the dream occurred. [00:29:02] Pam: as opposed to oftentimes people will wake up, their logical thinking comes on board and they're like, I need to act on this and go tell that person in the real world. Right. That may be the second thing that occurs that you need to do, but the first thing is to acknowledge it in the inner, in the inner realm because then you're building a dialogue with that part of you. [00:29:23] Pam: Does that make sense? [00:29:24] Cara: Yeah. So to clarify, am I still in that dream space where I try to have that connection or I wake up and I try to revisit, revisit it once I wake up? [00:29:34] Pam: Yes, you wanna do it once you wake up because you're using your conscious waking mind now to integrate with your dreaming mind and the dream maker, whoever that happens, whatever that happens to be. Right. So that's the integration piece is I'm going to consciously revisit this experience now. And so you're bringing a new part of. [00:29:54] Pam: Self into the dream experience because when you're sleeping, you're just subject to [00:30:00] whatever you get shown or whatever's brought to you. But when you wake up and you go, let's revisit that, now you're adding your own blessing to it. [00:30:07] Cara: Yeah. Yeah, that makes so much sense. I actually, I have a little dream journal I keep next to the bed. Go in, out, out of consistently using it. But I was finding that like I would wake up and it would be there, and if I didn't grasp it, It would flutter away. And so, that's where I would kind of like put it in writing to say, this is kind of what happened. [00:30:27] Cara: And I would visit it, but I never actually connected with source and that connection. So that makes so much sense. So much sense. and like I just didn't know how to, how to strengthen it. Like I've always known those, some sort of connection, so that's really helpful. I appreciate that. [00:30:44] Pam: Yeah, absolutely. The first time that I dreamt something that came true, the very next day, I freaked the, I freaked out. I was like, what does this mean? What, why would I, why would I experience it? Can I tell the future now? Like, do, am I, I just thought I was like [00:31:00] the greatest thing. All of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, look what I can do. [00:31:04] Pam: Like I had this dream and here it is. And it's kind of the opposite. It's kind of an introduction to how do I normalize intuition for myself? How do I keep the, it's like the energetic waves have to stay still from the ex, from the outside. How do I keep my ego from jumping on this and messing up the lines of communication, which are really pretty clear when I'm. [00:31:32] Pam: My ego's not involved. [00:31:34] Cara: It's true. And I mean, that makes sense. A lot of, um, the beginning pieces of my spiritual awakening was I was having these visions in my meditation, so I wasn't asleep. I was meditating and I was having these visions of this life that I kept saying, there's no way that's not possible for me. [00:31:53] Cara: Shortly after that, the pandemic happened and I was living it. And so it was one of those things where I could, not [00:32:00] only was I dreaming what was ha, what could be a possibility in the future, it was also that I was meditating what could be a possibility. And so bridging that gap, and again, leaving that space, that time alone for that to come through is really powerful. [00:32:16] Cara: first time that I had someone pass away, visit me, knowing. if I could probably go back to like my childhood, I did have a lot of people pass away, um, like friends and stuff and I wouldn't be surprised if they came to me. I just probably wasn't as much aware of it. but the first time where it felt so real that like I did not know what to do was when the night my dad passed away. [00:32:38] Cara: I'll just give you a little funny story. So my grandma always said that when she died, she would, come back as a bird and excuse my language, shit on our cars to let us know that she was watching over us. It was like her humor. [00:32:51] Pam: Sure. [00:32:51] Cara: And so it was like just my dad and like that side of the family's humor or whatever. [00:32:57] Cara: the night we came home from the hospital, there was a bird [00:33:00] in the den where my dad always hung out. And so it brought this lightness and this funness of frantically trying to get this bird out of the house. And if you know my dad's humor, I was like, this is. Like this is him. He's here. [00:33:13] Cara: And that night I have never felt such a strong presence, but I was scared and I was like, dad. I can't take your humor right now. Like I've had enough, I'm at my limit and I look back and I'm like, oh, I'm so sad. Like, I wish I would've been able to handle that and connect with him more on that point of like, he was in that space. [00:33:32] Cara: I've had people come to me to relay other messages to people to tell 'em like, they're okay now. And, [00:33:37] Pam: I mean, it's so beautiful. It speaks to our interconnectedness, you know, again, more than it speaks to, a person, you know, like that ego inflated ego response, which is a totally natural response. for me, this is my mission in life, is to just let people be less. Of the dream space [00:34:00] because you're exactly right. [00:34:01] Pam: I mean, part of the benefit of the ego is that we can say like, Hey, dreaming mind, cool. It, I don't, don't show it to me that way. Again, come up with something else. Right? and that's a real benefit, but, but it's also this trusted place that we can actually just let go and just trust that. Whoever is creating the dreams with us, for us are doing it on our behalf, cheering us on towards mental and emotional and spiritual wellbeing. [00:34:31] Pam: And once I learned that like, wait a minute, this is a safe part of me. And even the nightmares, I mean, there are things that we can do to, to mitigate nightmares, but, but this is a safe part of me that's always going to be truthful. Even if there are truths I don't want to hear. then I was like, oh, I, I have the capacity to really be honest with myself. [00:34:52] Pam: I have the capacity to look at deep truths, and sometimes I have the capacity to experience [00:35:00] some really profound, profound interconnectedness. [00:35:03] Pam: Like, who doesn't wanna know that about themselves? [00:35:06] Cara: Yes. I mean, I think anything that can strengthen your intuition is beautiful and empowering because I truly believe if people lived off of their intuition, There would be less health issue. I feel like there, there's so much. I honestly feel like I burnt out from my career boundaries, but also my intuition was telling me things and I was trying to live in this logical mind of like, that's not possible. [00:35:33] Cara: I'm going to live away that other people expect me to live It's not possible for me to live a life that truly fills my soul. And then I. I woke up one day and I realized, oh wait. If I wanna have a certain life, it is up to me to do that. Right? It's up to us. And so if we can come from a place of strengthening that intuition and building that, I had, I ended up having a dream about, I had to make a difficult [00:36:00] decision a while ago, I asked like, show me, show me the way. And I had a dream that night and the dream in itself did not feel scary, but I, I really, I have to kind of share it a little bit, but it was ultimately about going on a trip and I just didn't feel like it was the safe thing for my family. And I do at the time. [00:36:19] Cara: And I was disappointing in a lot of people not going, and that was hard for me to say no to. And so I, I was shown a dream about me and just my personal family, not other people that I was supposed to be going on the trip with, that we were on vacation. There was a boardwalk, but the funny part was there was this huge object in the sky and it looked like it was this. Changing for everyone on earth kind of thing. And I was like, I don't know what this means. It didn't make me feel bad. It actually made me feel good. And then six months later, I'm on vacation with my husband and my kids and we're on a [00:37:00] boardwalk. I the, the same picture I had in the dream. And do you know what that object. [00:37:05] Cara: The object that I saw was a TikTok filter. It was like, I don't know if you saw that trend with the, um, the planet spinning in the sky that [00:37:14] Pam: yes. [00:37:15] Cara: mind you, this filter did not exist when I had this dream, but that was literally what it was. And I see this filter driving home, like I see it driving home, and I'm like, that was my dream saying. You're not going on that trip. This is the trip you're gonna be going on differently. And it showed me pieces of it. And so it was one of those where logically I'm like, th this can't be good. There was literally a planet about to run into Earth and we're going to die. And then I just had a laugh that I was like, there you go. [00:37:45] Cara: There's TikTok for you. [00:37:47] Pam: Oh my God. But, but in the dream, it felt okay. [00:37:51] Cara: It did. Yeah. No, it did not feel like, I was like, I was like, everybody was freaking out around me and I was like, this is great. Like [00:38:00] this is a cool view. You know what I mean? I just sat back and enjoyed it. There was no scary part about it at all. [00:38:06] Pam: Yes. Yeah, so that was one. That's one of the things that I focus on with people is like, go with the emotions that are in the dream, because that's what you're being, that's the perspective that you're being provided with is the emotional fingerprint in the dream. That's where you go. It's because when you wake up, your logical mind comes on board and goes, that should have been scary. [00:38:29] Pam: Ugh. I think I was, that was a scary dream. But it's, if it wasn't in the dream, then it wasn't for you. Yeah. That is such a cool experience. And what, again, what a validating encounter that something in you is bigger than you. Something in you is beyond your ego, is beyond your capacity to control or understand it. [00:38:48] Pam: So in that way, dreams become a more trustworthy place. [00:38:51] Cara: Yeah, I've been trying to find that piece I would love to know, like for listeners, what are a couple like common occurrences and dreams that maybe you can give [00:39:00] them and like what they mean. [00:39:01] Pam: Yeah, sure. One of the favorite ones that people like to talk about is the Flying Dreams. People are, I don't know that flying is a really common experience in that we don't dream it very often, but when we do, it's really memorable and so it's one of the ones that gets talked about a lot. So Flying Dreams can have a couple of different meanings. [00:39:20] Pam: The first is, it can mean that you are actually, um, unground. if you are indulging too much, if you're, if you are, if you are experiencing an ego inflation, then a flying dream can be an indicator of that. And again, the thing that would tell you is that emotional fingerprint. The other thing that it can mean is that it can be compensating for when you are being too hard on yourself. [00:39:44] Pam: In waking life, you can experience a flying dream because our psyche likes to balance itself out, dreams can compensate for what we're going through. If you're having high stress, high anxiety, and you're just like knee deep in the mud and the guck of life, you can [00:40:00] have a flying dream to kind of bring you an experience. [00:40:03] Pam: Of some fresh air and some enlightenment to help you with your life. so it can be compensating or it can be, um, showing an inflation. other thing is it can be spiritual. Progress or a spiritual calling. If you're, if you're moving in the right direction, you can have a flying dream that would be like, yes, this is, this is what is going to, how do I say? [00:40:25] Pam: Like, move you forward towards your goals. It's gonna bring you up higher in elevation, right? so flying dreams is one another is water in a dream, which is not a particular type of dream, but the element of water is one of the. Common elements that we experience in our dreaming. So water often denotes either our emotional state or our spiritual state. [00:40:51] Pam: So if you dream, for example, of a tidal wave, then you can think of a tidal wave of emotions. If you dream of really muddy [00:41:00] water with maybe dangerous out for me, it was alligators under the water. Then I've got some, very messy muddy. You talk about being entangled in other people's emotions. As an empath, it means my emotions are muddied and there is some threat to that. [00:41:17] Pam: For me, I'm feeling a real. Right. So those are kind of, those are just two that come, that come to mind. Flying Dreams and Water and Dreams. [00:41:24] Cara: Yeah, I was trying to think. I had one, um, that came to mind where I was like trying to see if it, it fit in there. I don't know what what it means, but I'm gonna definitely keep that one up there [00:41:36] Pam: Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Yeah, that's good. I was gonna say, we can dive in if you want, but we don't have to. You could save it for your own reflection. [00:41:43] Cara: Well, I have one that I wouldn't mind bringing up. It does not have to do with water, it's a reoccurring dream, number one, but it has to do ultimately with being a hairstylist, and I would show up to do a client. There wouldn't be a space for me. [00:41:58] Cara: I felt really unprepared. I [00:42:00] felt very undervalued by the salon. And mind you, I did hair for 19 years before I stopped. And so I had a variant of bosses, a variant of, um, Like coworkers and every time it changed, it was never the same people in at any point. And so the process of trying to take care of this client felt forever. [00:42:21] Cara: And I felt like I wasn't satisfying their needs. I think it comes up with being a worthiness factor. And I'm like, no, I built so much self-worth, but I. It might come to the fact of trying to prove my worth. Not that I don't feel worthy, it's that I'm still trying to prove myself in this new, this new space. [00:42:43] Cara: And [00:42:43] Pam: my God. Yeah. [00:42:44] Cara: I had a dream that changed after having this revelation. But I wanna, I would like to hear your take, and then I'll tell you the dream that I had in [00:42:53] Pam: That's, ah, that's so cool. Right. Dreams talk to each other, right? So there can be an evolution, especially [00:43:00] with recurring dreams. I love it. yeah, I mean, everybody has a version of the work stress dream, right? So, um, my friend Melissa is a. Former radio dj, and so hers is the DJ board doesn't work and there's dead air on that thing, right? [00:43:13] Pam: I'm a teacher, so mine is the teaching, the classroom where nobody will listen to me. So everybody has their own version of that. For me, what's important is that you recognize, just like you have what it's indicating, right? So it means that in your waking life, something has triggered that old pattern, that old behavior. [00:43:32] Pam: And so when you wake up from one of those dreams, the important thing is what do I. With today knowing that that dream got triggered somehow, right? So what do I do with today is I recognize how did I used to respond to old work sp stress? What's the healthier way to do it now? And I make sure that during that particular day I am very gentle with myself and I'm very, uh, tuned into how I talk to myself and how [00:44:00] I take care of myself, especially when it comes to work on [00:44:03] Cara: Yeah. That's so powerful. That makes so much sense for sure. [00:44:06] Pam: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then it will evolve the dream. So tell me the evolution. [00:44:11] Cara: So the, uh, evolution was I was, I went in, my most toxic boss I've had in my career was there, and she wanted me to do this person's hair in a way that just did not feel good to me. And I think I was like, just gimme a minute. And I know this is very, this is not how I would be professionally. [00:44:29] Cara: And I was like, gimme a minute. I gotta go do something. I'll be back. I left and then I called on the phone and I said, I'm sorry, this doesn't serve me. I'm done with this. And I never went back. [00:44:38] Pam: Wow. [00:44:39] Cara: it was, it was one of those moments where I was like, oh, I don't need, uh, one, I was over complicating what I was doing to try and prove myself. [00:44:48] Cara: I don't need that anymore. I know I'm worth what I'm going into and I'm gonna leave that old pattern approving myself. For people, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what they think. [00:44:58] Pam: That is so perfect, [00:45:00] and what I, what is brilliant about it is that you experienced it just by witnessing it, right? Just by holding that idea of maybe worthiness as a factor in old patterns or in stress or whatever, and then the dream took over. And said, you, you know, almost like you have graduated that life lesson like, here is your reward. [00:45:19] Pam: We're gonna play it all the way out for you. Right. That's so amazing. [00:45:24] Cara: Yeah. Thank you. I, I like that confirmation cuz that's what I felt like, and I was like, was it, have I, I don't know. Have all the things come in for me yet? No, but I'm feeling better about the process of what I'm doing, so, yeah. Thank you for that. Because I've had some people also talk about the dream and I liked the way they explained it. [00:45:43] Cara: They helped me come to realization of what it meant. But you telling me, Leaving the space, seeing how I can go about my day when these dreams come about, that piece I really needed. And so I appreciate that. So what's the lesson? How can we learn from it? That's huge. [00:45:59] Pam: [00:46:00] Yeah. [00:46:01] Cara: wow. Well, this has been awesome and I would love for listeners to hear all about your offerings and how they can find you. [00:46:09] Pam: Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, clearly I could talk about this for ages and ages, and I do, so people can find me on social media. I'm all over social media at Sweet Georgia, Pam, right now, TikTok is the hottest thing. So I, I have, I have found a really. Great audience on TikTok and I have a whole lot of fun there. [00:46:28] Pam: So, um, that would be where I would suggest people go first. I also have a podcast called The Hidden Meaning of Dreams, where, um, we just take, just like we did with you with this one, Kara, we take one dream, my producer brings it to me, and then. I just unpack it. If this were my dream, these were the things I would think about. [00:46:46] Pam: This is what I would wanna do, this is what I would wonder about. they're real short episodes and really easy to listen to. And it kind of gives you a perspective of like my Pam thinking Brain and how it works so that it's a little different than a Dream Dictionary. [00:47:00] I've written a book called 33 Ways to Work With Your Dreams. [00:47:03] Pam: That is maybe the next step beyond a dream dictionary, and they can find that, uh, it's on Amazon, but it's also on my website, suite Georgia pam.com. that's kind of the hub for everything that I offer. in regards to dreamwork and also in regards to spiritual direction, because some people feel called to, you know, we wanna listen to the stories from waking life as if it is a dream. [00:47:24] Pam: So we look for the intuition and the symbolism and the metaphor that is playing out in waking life when we do spiritual direction together. So, [00:47:32] Cara: Yeah, I love that. I will make sure all these links are in the show notes because you have access to that. And I did find you on. TikTok, that is how we connected. And I agree. I feel like TikTok is that fun outlet where we can really, truly show up as ourselves and find the people that are meant for us. [00:47:49] Cara: And I don't feel like a, I don't feel like the rest of the social medias really have that space, so, yay. [00:47:56] Pam: Yeah. I know you for technology, like this is something you couldn't [00:48:00] have envisioned five years ago. Like, yeah, I'm gonna be, you know, on this new platform and reaching all. Thousands of people. And so it's been really great. Yeah, [00:48:08] Cara: Yeah. Um, one question about your podcast. Is it something that listeners submit their dreams or they, is it that you do it live [00:48:18] Pam: yeah. No, we don't do it live. We pre-record it. Um, but absolutely, listeners can submit dreams. I use people's dream comments when they, um, when I do a TikTok, people will say, well, this was my experience, or I had this dream, whatever, you know, and we look for. We look for, sometimes celebrities will talk about their dreams and tweets and you know, articles, news articles and stuff. [00:48:39] Pam: But we are totally open to anybody who wants to come on the podcast and we can do a live scenario. Yeah. Would you like to? Oh my God, we, we will set that up for sure, cuz that would be so great. Yes. [00:48:52] Cara: Awesome. I got plenty to choose from, so you, I'll give you a, a list and you can choose which [00:48:57] Pam: Oh. [00:48:58] Cara: be good for your podcast. So[00:49:00] [00:49:00] Pam: Okay. Sounds good. I love it. Great. [00:49:02] Cara: hey, Pam. I really loved this conversation and [00:49:05] Pam: It's been so great. [00:49:07] Cara: Yeah. And then, you know, I'll be on her podcast, so I'll make sure I share, share that when that comes about. [00:49:13] Cara: So thank you so much, Pam, and we'll chat soon. Okay. [00:49:16] Pam: Okay. Sounds good. Thank you. [00:49:18] Cara: Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode, if this was your first time. Welcome. And if you've joined me for previous episodes, thank you so much for coming back before you go. Could you share my show with a friend and subscribe? Those few seconds may get big impact on my show and I'd be grateful for the support. [00:49:34] Cara: I absolutely love this interview with Pam. I enjoyed also be among her podcasts. And so if that episode is out, I will link it in the show notes. If you want to find out how to connect with Pam, check the show notes and all the links. Mentioned we'll be caradempsey.com/57. thanks for being here and we'll chat soon