From Hustle Culture to Corporate Rehab Interview With Jennie Blumenthal | #32

NOTE: This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool. Please forgive any typos or errors. Jennie Blumenthal === [00:00:00] Cara: And this episode, my guest, Jenny and I talk about the concept of corporate rehab and the idea of ditching the hustle culture. Really inspiring women to thrive. We talk about patterns, behaviors, and mindsets that we adapt early on in life that influenced this need to overwork ourselves. I love how she bridges the gap between spirituality and the corporate world. So everyone can benefit from a life of purpose and real connection. [00:00:23] Cara: I can't wait to get started. [00:00:24] Cara: welcome to float activity, a place to inspire and empower beings to embrace self-love and self-development for an achievable balance of productivity. I share different ways to come back to your intuition through spirituality, self care, human design, cycle planning, wellness, and everything in between. [00:00:43] Cara: Thank you so much for joining me this week. If this is your first time. Welcome. And if you've been here with me before. Thank you so much for coming back. I'm so excited to join you in this journey. As we learn together. [00:00:57] Cara: The Floductivity [00:01:00] 28 Day Transformation and Rebirth Workbook is an incredible guide that will help you uncover your mind's body and soul so you can step into the person you know in your heart you're meant to be. [00:01:10] Cara: This one of a kind workbook is ch full of amazing content, including journal prompts, many meditation reflections, and bite size information about human design and how to utilize your unique gifts to create a life aligned with the universe. Each day of the workbook focuses on a different theme, depending on where we are at in the phase of the moon, so you can really maximize your potential during this powerful time of change in regrowth. [00:01:34] Cara: Whether you're looking to make some serious changes in your life or just wanting to connect more deeply with yourself, this workbook is an invaluable tool that will help guide you on your journey. You can align it with the video challenge on TikTok or Instagram, or you can do it on its own. So jump on board and let's get started on this amazing transformation process together. [00:01:53] Cara: This challenge on. October 25th, which is the Scorpio New Moon, solar eclipse. You [00:02:00] can follow along with videos on YouTube or Instagram during this 28 day challenge, or use the workbook all by itself. Let's get started on this amazing transformation process together. [00:02:11] Cara: welcome to the show, Jennie. [00:02:12] Jennie: Thanks, Cara. Happy to be here. [00:02:13] Cara: Well, I always love to start off my interviews with my favorite question, and what is your self care practices that are non-negotiable for you? [00:02:22] Jennie: Oh, that's a good one. those are currently, being, determined right now or reset as we get into the busy sports season. So, I usually have my Saturdays. Full of hikes in the park, and now we're more often on soccer fields. but my, my one that I is my go to is I actually love to read at night right before bed, and I will not miss that, for anything, just as a chance to kind of shut down my brain a little bit off screen at the end of the day. [00:02:49] Cara: I love that. I would love to know what kind of books that you find that help you kind of shut down before the end of the day. [00:02:56] Jennie: Sure. well, I might be a little bit different in this because I'm [00:03:00] writing my own book and so I'm usually just consuming so much. Of the types of, of books and literature and research, that I've been so excited about. so usually what I'll do is read anything that has to do with, doing like the neuroscience of leadership or body physiology or even, spiritual intuition. [00:03:19] because I'm really. Trying to get a range of different types of, books that are influencing some of the research I do. But when I need to completely check out and not use my brain, it's always southern historical fiction for me. [00:03:32] Cara: Okay. I love that I have that a part of my morning routine of the self-development piece. I usually try to put at least 10 minutes in the morning to kind of absorb something and a lot of times it's like the same book. You know, as I go through it and really dive into that. So I love the reading piece. I also do read before I go to bed as well, and that usually is varying on how I feel to kind of help me shut down. [00:03:57] Jennie: Definitely. [00:03:57] Cara: Yeah, I think [00:04:00] talking about just the concept of corporate rehab and the idea of ditching the hustle culture and. Really inspiring women to thrive. Again, I know that was my own personal journey. I wasn't really in the corporate world, but I definitely had a hustle mentality and it led me right to burnout. [00:04:18] Cara: And I just wanna kind of bridge the gap to say, you can still be successful and be that leader that you want, but how can we bridge that gap between the two? [00:04:28] Jennie: Yeah, it's a great question. And, and that's very similar to my story too, which I know we'll get into a little bit and I'm so intrigued by yours. I think part of the frustration or the, confusion around figuring out where the. Hustle culture fits in is really understanding what it's all about to begin with, and the fact that when we talk about the hustle culture, it's not just getting up and going to work or hustling to get kids out of the door and get their shoes on. [00:04:54] Jennie: It's really this always on the go. Everything has to be productive. You're adding things to your list just to cross them [00:05:00] off so that you can feel like you're good enough for having done something. And I think that's where it's really this mindset and, and it's reinforced within society that we have to constantly prove our worth outside of ourselves. [00:05:11] Jennie: And so I think that's really where, you know, when I focus on the hustle culture, That's really what we start talking about and it can really show up just as easily in the boardroom as it can in the living room. in terms of never really giving yourself time to pause, never prioritizing those non-negotiables of self care, as you mentioned. [00:05:29] Jennie: So I think that's really, it starts with kind of this understanding of what the hustle culture really is. and then figuring out what role you want to let it take within your life. And so that's really what I focus on, is being aware of it, both mindsets and patterns and behaviors. knowing what relationship it has to burnout, to your point, which is particularly, impactful for women. [00:05:49] because we serve so many other roles, most of them, non-paid within our society, that contributes again to that constant burnout. And so just, it's really more being aware [00:06:00] of what it's doing in your life and then making a conscious decision about what role you want it to play. [00:06:04] Cara: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I would love to know what brought you to this point, so a little bit of your story of how you got there. [00:06:13] Jennie: Yeah, so,I was in corporate America for 20 years, by about 2019 pre pandemic. I had reached, a pinnacle within my career and that I was a partner with a large global consulting firm. I was the only woman on our business unit's leadership team. I was starting to get more and more accolades, and great opportunities. [00:06:32] to increase my career opening up. and there was so much that I loved from that. There was a lot of, benefit that I got from helping clients. I'm really passionate about figuring out what people's needs are and bringing, help to meet those needs. I loved my teams and in terms of helping people develop and figuring out what they could do to put them in this place of, of optimal, efficiency or, or doing what they were really meant to do. [00:06:55] Jennie: But the further and further I got into it, and the more I felt like I had to [00:07:00] be there to help everybody else, I found myself at burning out in the process. and at some point, when the pandemic hit, I then got to a point thinking, and actually ironically, I was leading, the firm's travel business at the time. [00:07:12] so talk about an industry that was really impacted by, the pandemic and forced you to really, really evaluate. So much energy and purpose, helping my clients really figure out how they were going to survive when, you know, their offices were shut down, planes were grounded. And every morning I woke up reinvigorated to coach the rest of the partners that I led and the business unit that I led, of all of my teams on how we were going to get through, how we were gonna help our clients. [00:07:37] Jennie: It was really rewarding. And then the new fiscal year started in July and all of a sudden it was back to. Sell the biggest projects, get on planes or get not on planes, I guess get on zooms at that point, and get everybody productive. And it was all of a sudden revenue was really the only focus. And so for me it was such a contrast of, oh wow, I found this purpose and fulfillment in [00:08:00] helping do things that felt really meaningful. [00:08:02] Jennie: And now we turn the page and I'm being asked to explain why my biggest clients were struggling. Thought maybe I should just send, you know, one of the, the newspaper headlines to my boss because it was obvious what was happening. But it was this real disconnection for me from meaning and purpose in my daily life. [00:08:18] and then that suddenly really started to make me question a lot more and say, Am I really doing this because I believe in the work or am. Working so hard because I want to have my kids see their mom going after something they want. and is that something that their mom wants being on Zooms for 14 hours and when the world opens back up, flying all over the place And I realized, no, it's not actually, I think I'm meant for something a little bit different than this. [00:08:44] Jennie: And I, quit my job, very abruptly, and really started to do some work internally to figure out. What I was feeling at the time. We didn't have the words of burnout, so I didn't realize that I was really burned out by trying to be everything to everyone. I knew something was off with [00:09:00] my relationship with myself because I wasn't really sure why I was doing and hustling so hard. [00:09:05] the pandemic gave me a great opportunity to look at the relationships within my house. what type of mom I wanted to be with my children, whether I was really the pre the type of present partner and had the relationship I wanted with my husband. and so that really gave me a chance to, to reevaluate. [00:09:19] Jennie: And some of the things that led up to it was, our next door neighbor unfortunately passed away very suddenly in the pandemic. and when you know, you hear, or you think about what do you wanna do and you're met with this boy, this doesn't feel purposeful anymore, and then you realize. You could be gone tomorrow. [00:09:35] Jennie: It really makes you rethink, you know, is this really what I want to do? And so that led me on this path of figuring out what I was going to do next. And I didn't know, and I thought, well, maybe as we're all stuck at the kitchen table with my kids doing school and me trying to figure out what was coming next, I should do some work to, from on myself to understand why I stayed so long and what were the things that kind of kept me. [00:09:57] Jennie: Staying at something that might have no longer served [00:10:00] merit, outgrown. And that really led me to finding the hustle culture and figuring out, that there was actually these mindsets and behaviors and patterns, some of which get set very early in life from our, either our families of origin or influential people and, and. [00:10:14] Jennie: Experiences from college to jobs. and so much of that was running in the background for me that I had no idea about. And so really what led me to start doing this work was to try to start educating everybody I had interacted with, that there were these patterns running in the background, and that really led me to start that together in a book and starting to do some coaching for other women that were finding themselves in similar situ. [00:10:37] Cara: Yeah, that's so empowering and thank you for sharing all that. I find that while there was so many things that were so hard with Covid, it was the a great awakening. I think it. Awoke so many people to realize that the life , their living wasn't meaningful. There was no purpose to it. I mean, purpose, yes, but ultimately you can feel it inside. [00:10:59] Cara: [00:11:00] And when we are moving so quickly, when we're doing so much and we're living from that masculine, I need to do, do, do. You do not have that time of feminine connection to. Within receive and think about what really will empower you and your family and those around you. And I find that you begin to have that self awareness. [00:11:23] Cara: And not saying that we weren't aware of ourselves previously. It's taking that time to kind of really sit and. Think about those uncomfortable feelings, those moments of life. And you're like, Yeah, what, what kind of mom do I wanna be? What kind of leader do I wanna be? And really sitting with that and allowing that receptive, you know, time to come in and allow that come to you. [00:11:45] Cara: When you're in the constant move hustle, you don't get that. You're blocking it. And so, you know, That, that's what happened for me. I was so much in a world of my every minute of my day was [00:12:00] always planned. I was a hair stylist and I did not know how to put myself in a priority. I was always like my clients, my kids, my hu, you know, I was always putting everybody else ahead of time. [00:12:11] Cara: So I didn't know how to say what, what about me? And I was like, Oh, that's my job. That's not anybody else's job. So, you know, Sometimes it does take quitting our jobs. I don't think that's everybody has to do that, but I think it takes a certain person to say, I'm going to stand up and help other women be able to do this because not everybody. [00:12:33] Cara: Can wake up and do that, and think about how you can do those little things in your day to really allow yourself to connect with yourself, whether it's reading a book for a few minutes to kind of shut down, you know? Cause there's so many times where we're so tired at the end of the day and you're like, Oh, I'll get to it tomorrow. [00:12:49] Cara: But you get to a point where you're like, No, no, this is important to me today. So I'm going to make sure that I go upstairs a few minutes early so that I can focus on. [00:12:58] Jennie: That definitely [00:13:00] resonates. I think some of that, as you're mentioning, is just really tuning into yourself and it's really hard to do when the rest of the world is tugging at us and so much of what I found in the research and I wound up interviewing a ton of women for the book. That we have this extreme disconnection. [00:13:15] Jennie: You know, it's this ironic scenario where we're more connected on all of these devices and instant information. And you know, TikTok is at a point, and even Instagram is now saying, if you're not doing a video, you know that nobody wants static pictures anymore. We've got this like high level. Of need for connection, but were ever more disconnected. [00:13:34] Jennie: And a lot of that is not only from each other, but from ourselves. there was just a, a research that was put out by the How Institute that looked at the level of connection across and disconnection across the pandemic. And it looked for different subgroups and it found that women were a hundred percent more likely to feel disconnected, which I thought was interesting of like every single person they asked said, yes, absolutely. [00:13:57] Jennie: I felt disconnected not only from family and [00:14:00] friends, but from themselves as they had gotten caught up in the hustle culture or really into your point. It, you know, caught up in trying to make sure everybody else's needs were taken care of, without making sure that they're creating some space to take care of the. [00:14:13] Cara: Yeah, and I find for, for my own personal experience, I actually had to shut out that social media world at a point because. So many people were saying, Do this, do that, do that. And I'm, and it was like the power came when I listened to what I needed to do, not what everybody else needed to do. Now, getting support and whatever that is for you in the process is important. [00:14:38] Cara: You know, coach a therapist, you know, however that fits. Your personality, but it really, like I said before, it takes that self awareness to say like, does this feel good? Am I doing this again? Getting caught up in that, to check it off the box? Or am I doing this because it really is feeding my soul? [00:14:56] Cara: Because it's so hard in the [00:15:00] expectations you put on yourself and the expectations you think other people put onto you, because that was one of my own things was I ha. I am one of those people that puts these expectations that are not necessary on myself, but I also do it from, you know, someone else's viewpoint. [00:15:19] Cara: And I'm like, They're not doing that. Why am I thinking that they are expecting me to do that? And you know, it takes that whole boundary thing to get to a point where some people don't really know what you're doing and you're like, This is for my own mental, well, you know, my mind, body and soul wellbeing. [00:15:34] Cara: And it might be a little tough at first, but. You know, it's, it's hard cuz you might have been one way and turned to another. And that was ultimately my experience with that. I know that, there is the three human needs that keep us hooked in that hustle culture. And I'd love to dive into that a little bit more. [00:15:51] Jennie: Yes, definitely. well, there's actually, a whole thought process of how it follows the Maslow. needs hierarchy. And if you haven't looked at [00:16:00] that since sixth grade, the quick refresher is, humans are really built to kind of meet these layered needs on, on top of each other. And we start with these basic physical needs. [00:16:09] Jennie: So food, shelter, water safety. Then we add on progressive. Once those are met, then you add. Connection is the next piece of that. Then esteem. So things that will bring you, feeling proud of yourself. It could be a job, it could be a position in a community. And then the final piece is actually purpose. [00:16:28] Jennie: And I think what's, what's so interesting about that is that when we get caught up in the hustle culture, It actually can seem like it's a good,substitute for actually meeting those needs. It can make you feel secure cuz you're doing enough of the things to check off the list. It can make you feel connected because you're actually reaching out to all these people and getting all of these inputs. [00:16:48] Jennie: It might even make you feel purposeful that you got all of this work done. But at the end of the day, if it's actually. Not if it's distracting you, and not actually allowing you to stay [00:17:00] focused on what you truly want or what your true your actual needs are. You're actually busy serving everybody else's or just getting caught up in distraction of, what others want you to do. [00:17:09] Jennie: It can really take you away or be almost a, a. Shiny alternative to your real human needs. And I think that's why it can get so confusing because it can, you know, work can give, can be very meaningful. Work can give us purpose in our lives. being a mom is the same thing, can be very meaningful and can give us purpose. [00:17:28] Jennie: But when we take one of those roles that we play and we allow that to be the substitute and the activity around that to be the substitute for our own needs, I think is where it can get a little bit confusing. you and you see it, and whether it's, you know, a mom that all of a sudden the kids are empt nest and they, she doesn't know what to do. [00:17:46] Jennie: It can be an executive if it happens to be a man. Who retires and you know, at 60 and all of a sudden missed his kids growing up, or doesn't have friends except for the husbands of his wive's friends. Right. So I think it's, it's [00:18:00] interesting to kind of look at that and say, Is this what I really, truly need? [00:18:04] Jennie: Or is this thing making me feel connected or purposeful? Or is this just activity that's keeping me distracted from what it is that I truly. [00:18:13] Cara: Yeah, it's like that identity piece, like you're putting your own identity into those around you, and it's. In my own, finding myself, figuring out my purpose. It it is, you know, making that separation to say like, I am me. This is myself. And I know it takes everybody, their own journey to get there, but I, I not connect with my feminine. [00:18:37] Cara: That was a really hard thing for me to do in this hustle world. And one of the things that I did was connect with my cycle. I know there's, you know, different ways to do it, menstrual cycle, moon cycle, but I think it's one of these taboo things that people are like, Well, I don't know. I have it. You know, like, I don't know what it is. [00:18:57] Cara: And it's just kind of taking a step back and saying like, Earth [00:19:00] has for, you know, like where you're at has four seasons. There's usually, seasons of change. There's phases. And allowing yourself to kind of lean into that understanding. You're not always supposed to be doing. There are times that things feel easier to do. [00:19:15] Cara: Like the summer you do a lot of things because it feels invigorating, but in the winter you kind of wanna retract and lean back a little bit. And so finding a way for you to connect with this phase of cycles, like I said, you don't have a, have to have a menstrual cycle to be able to use this power, but it's a really great guidepost to say, I don't really know how to and then do, and then, you know, like refine the details and then reflect. So it's, it's again that self-awareness, but like if you don't have it is really hard to connect with it. Right. You know what I mean? Knowing that there is a time for rest. And I think that's the missing piece is so many women don't know how to rest [00:19:59] Cara: They don't know how [00:20:00] to sit with themselves. And I've heard people like it is my worst nightmare to sit in a bathtub. Something to do, and I'm like, I think you might need to look into that a little bit. You know, like sitting with yourself is the most powerful thing. So what is that? What, what might be blocking you on being able to be with yourself? [00:20:18] Cara: What walls have you put up? What behaviors have you put up to not be able to do that? And I didn't know if. You have any insight on kind of that concept of following the seasons of life seasons? You know, it translates in every season of your life that there is a phase and to kind of lean into that, and I don't know if you've experienced that yourself at all. [00:20:38] Jennie: Yeah, that's a great point. I feel like there's so much in there. So, Yes. And I think that there's, you know, fir first kind of dialing it back to what you started with of like the masculine and feminine, I think is such a powerful thing to point out because this gets so confusing in our culture. and if you go back, you know, thousands of years, every civilization has dealt with this in different ways, whether [00:21:00] it's. [00:21:00] Jennie: You know, the yin and the yang, or, now as we, you know, think about what we call traditionally masculine versus feminine from an energy perspective. And when you think about the masculine, it's all focused on doing, you know, on achieving on, you know, strength, on power, on domination, versus what the feminine energy is associated with is the nurturing, the listening, the creating space, creating community. [00:21:25] and when you think about. Those different fa, those different pieces, they're in each of us. And I think it's just so interesting that, you know, it's not a matter of, it has nothing to do with your gender or sexual orientation. If you think about those qualities as a human. all of us have access to that. [00:21:42] Jennie: And depending on, you know, all kinds of factors of how you grew up and your own, your own biology, right? You might have, you know, been been lean, leaning towards overusing one of those or the other. and when I understood this concept and actually doing some of the research [00:22:00] for the book was really enlightening because I realized, This was a good example of why it was always so hard to be a woman in a male dominated company. [00:22:09] but also easy in a way because I understood the rules. The rules were all just men's rules. It was power and domination, and be the strongest and be the smartest guy in the room and pound the table the loudest and anger's okay to get your way. But the problem is, is when we are women in those scenarios and trying to come into the male dominated, environment and use natural feminine energy, if you're leading with that, it flies in the face or it comes off as weak or that's not appropriate. [00:22:35] Jennie: And, and even more so when you. you know, show up as a woman and you're using anger or using dominance, that that can be a little bit confusing for others based on, you know, how they're, how they perceive the world and, and traditional gender roles. So I think part of this is, is trying as a, as a person is trying to actually look into that a little bit and make some space for the fact that it, there's both in each of us. [00:22:56] Jennie: And if we can acknowledge that, that also feeds [00:23:00] into, to your point about the seasons, because there's time where you do need to hustle and you need to be dominant and you need to be strong. And there's time when all of us, regardless of gender, need to take a step back, lead to let, need to let the fields life fallow for a little while and need to kind of retreat a little bit and, and rebalance ourselves before the next. You know, a display of energy. I think part of the challenge to your point is, you know, why don't we do that? I think one of the reasons is we are in this always on culture that makes us think that we should be up all the time. We should be killing it on the soccer field and killing it at work. Right. And, and. [00:23:40] Jennie: We need that level of high energy all the time, as opposed to really looking at it as more of a roller coaster of ups and downs. And there's going to be highs and lows and that's normal. as opposed to just trying to stay up all the time. And you probably need to look no further than Facebook that, you know, there's, we're only celebrating the highs, to your point on social media. [00:23:59] Jennie: So I [00:24:00] think there's a lot of reasons we do that. It gets reinforced. I think the other piece to it though, Not, you know, having, a sense of how to stop. There's a lot of times where I think women, especially, you know, we're doing the bulk of the caregiving in any scenario, whether that's children, whether that's aging parents, and a lot of times, whether that's actual office housework in, in office setting. [00:24:24] but because of that, we don't have as much of that leisure time. and it's, there's all kinds of studies on this of. Working parents and what men versus women have in terms of that leisure that women just do not have as much of that leisure time than as as men. So there's already a short amount of time, but there's also this real fear, I think that sometimes happens. [00:24:46] Jennie: And it happened with me of what happens when I get quiet. Like what happens when I. what are the stories that are gonna run through my head that tell me I should be running or why have you stopped? And, and I think that part is scary cuz that also keeps us [00:25:00] running. We feel like we're enough if we're chasing something and doing something and there's something else we can say, you know, we've been, we've achieved and a lot of us. [00:25:09] Jennie: You know, were, were shown that as kids, that maybe our parents gave us a great work ethic and it serves us really well. But if you never saw them sitting down, if you never saw your mom, you know, taking that bubble bath or propping her feet up instead of, you know, doing one more thing, then there's, you know, a story that you picked up a long time ago that you get to relax once everything else is done. [00:25:30] and I see this in a hundred percent of my female coaching clients, no matter what level of. You know, um, careers they're in and, and what they're doing, it's really hard to give that space to ourselves, but to your point, we really need it. [00:25:43] Cara: We do, and I think it's, It stems down to. Having to prove our worth. [00:25:48] Jennie: Mm-hmm. [00:25:49] Cara: For me, at least, that's something that I'm trying to rebuild with myself, is I think that if I am constantly productive, then I'm proving my worth to everyone around me. But [00:26:00] then, you know, on the retrospect, if I'm overworking myself, I'm doing too much, I'm pouring too much of my energy into my work, then my family's gonna get the lack side of me. [00:26:11] Cara: And I know you had mentioned this earlier. It's, I think the most empowering thing that you can do for your children is to show them that you can really stand up and do good things for yourself, and then it filters around for the people around you. It's like that whole monkey, sea monkey do like, You have to show them because yeah, like you said, a lot of us probably didn't see it. [00:26:35] Cara: And you know, we always do the best we can with the tools we have and it's always that evolution of, you know, every set of parents and kids and you know, the lineage and just kind of taking those tools and hoping to inspire kids to kind of say, Yeah, you know what, I don't wanna have health problems because I'm running my. [00:26:56] Cara: Myself into the ground because I'm doing all the things that I think I'm supposed to be [00:27:00] doing. How about we start doing things of what makes me feel good and kind of, you know, allowing that, and I, I've definitely become a better mom because, because of it. And I've used kind of the experience of, okay, how can I bring joy into my life? [00:27:16] Cara: Let me think. Five year old Kara, what made her happy and let me do that with my kids. And it's fun to see that you forget those little things that you did as a kid that were building fors or playing board games and trying to implement that more in your life so that joy comes out. It brings out the inner child in you and then it sparks your kids to say, Look, my mom's having fun. [00:27:39] Cara: And that's kind of. What life is about is enjoying those moments with your kids. It's just, like I said, like bridging that gap between the two, because a lot of us don't know how to do that, and it's like, Relearning the most important relationship, and that's with yourself. It's like listening, What, what is that child wanna do? [00:27:59] Cara: What [00:28:00] is that teenager wanna do? What does that adult wanna do? And kind of listening. But it, you're right, it's scary at first because what's gonna come out in that time where you're sitting to say, Is this fun? And you know, it doesn't take sitting and meditation for that to come through. It's hiking in nature. [00:28:14] Cara: It's finding those things that you really can connect with yourself and say, Wow, that gave me so much satisfaction. That made me feel really good. . And the biggest piece to it is it allowed me to focus on the now. It, I wasn't planning something, I wasn't, you know, trying to do all these things. It was like, what can get me to focus on the now without getting in your head too much? [00:28:37] Cara: And so sometimes it takes certain things to get you there. And not everybody has to sit in meditation for that to come, [00:28:44] Jennie: Yeah, absolutely. I, that definitely resonates with me. So, I actually grew up on a farm out in the countryside, and I loved flowers back then. Was like one of my favorite things to garden. my dad was a big gardener, so we'd, you know, tend the garden [00:29:00] together and, and I'd learned from him on those things and just really lost a lot of time doing that. [00:29:04] Jennie: As I moved up in the corporate world, I always had a vegetable garden and the last couple of years had a hard time, you know, keeping that going. And so when I took my pause to figure out what I was gonna do next, I really loved starting to pick the flowers that I was growing already in the yard, and, actually had so many, I loved p e, so we had all of these p e blooming and I started to give them away to neighbors and just leave them on the sidewalk outside of our house. [00:29:28] Jennie: And the response that I got from people was just like, Oh my gosh, this made my day. And it gave me the thought of, wait a minute, like I'm an adult now, but I still love that I don't have to plant a vegetable garden. I can just plant a cut flower garden and like have flowers in my house all the time. And it's those things to your point of like reconnecting with the stuff that we loved. [00:29:47] Jennie: And you might feel silly at first. You know, part of my whole exploration of it was jumping on the trampoline with the kids, but so much of that just helps you, you know, go back to the things that actually make you happy. Flowers make me really [00:30:00] freaking happy. So now I get to, you know, cut them whenever I want. [00:30:03] Jennie: But it's so funny that that little thing that shifted, I wasn't even giving myself permission to plant the flowers that I so love until I realized like, wait a minute, I can make this choice. that little thing that, that lets you tap into something that you've always loved to do can actually just make you happy. [00:30:19] Jennie: Which I, I think you're right to your point, we sometimes hold ourselves back from. [00:30:22] Cara: Yeah, it's that. I don't know why we hold ourselves back in that? Like use the bubble bath, Like do the things, light the candle, do those things that really light you up and it's different for everyone. And so knowing that flowers like that sounds like that's your highest form of self care because it brings you that much joy. And so it's sometimes testing things out and being like, Ah, you know, And also for my own journey with that was I used to love to roller skate as a kid. Like that was my thing. And I was so excited to do with my daughter and was like, Yeah, and she hated it . So allowing her to [00:31:00] just kind of be like, It could change over time, but knowing also that like that connected with my inner child, it's not connecting with her inner child and I'll honor that. [00:31:09] Cara: So that just showed me like, just because it really excited me as a kid doesn't mean it's going to filter down to my children. [00:31:17] Jennie: Yes, that is so true, and that's a whole other topic of how do you do this stuff and then raise small humans at the same time and try to help them unlearn some of the things you're unlearning. And that's a whole other fun pyramid. [00:31:31] Cara: Yes. A daily, a daily, reflection. Yes. I've, I definitely feel that. Now, one thing that I would like to know is how can you make that jump of that toxic relationship you have with your job and coming back to yourself? Do you have any insight for. [00:31:49] Jennie: Sure. so one way I made the jump, and for me, and I'll just emphasize something you had said earlier, you know, once you're aware of the hustle culture, you don't have to leave your job. You don't have to quit [00:32:00] corporate America. Or your medical career education, it's really again about figuring out what role you want that to play. [00:32:08] Jennie: But as I started to interview women for the book and I wound up interviewing 300 women, I was shocked at how many actually are in real toxic situations. you know, toxic is different for each of us. What might be just a, a weak boundary on your time for one person might be actual abuse for somebody else. [00:32:25] Jennie: And so that definition can be, you know, a little bit broad there. But, but a lot of women that I've spoken with have been in just situations that just aren't good for them. And if we just keep the definition that, you know, trying to figure out what to do next. Is kind of one of the, the hardest things. [00:32:40] Jennie: So, the first piece I always say is just, you know, figuring out like what, what actually do you feel lights you up? What gives you energy? And then looking at is that, is the situation you're in doing any of that? Or is there so much obligation? and, and you know, at some point you feel like there's drudgery. [00:32:57] some people say it's, you know, how does your stomach feel [00:33:00] the night before? you go back to work on Monday and use that as your guide. So really just understanding where it's coming from. Are you just run down or is this a big thing that's that's ongoing in a situation itself that's not good for you any longer? [00:33:13] Jennie: And I do some coaching on that, with women that I, I work with directly to try. Figure out what's actually going on. And then the next piece is, as you get ready to leave, then actually doing some assessment to figure out, you know, what exactly you want to do next. And whether that's, you know, figuring out sometimes what we'll do, we'll start with why and, and why you're here on this earth. [00:33:35] Jennie: What do you want your tombstone to read? Things like that that kind of get you into like not only what you liked as a kid, but like what are the things that really make you feel. Like purposeful and that you, you know, can absolutely say, I'm here to do X. So that y And if you can kind of fill in that statement, then that gives us a sense of what you're thinking about doing. [00:33:55] Or y I'm sorry. You're thinking about doing it. The big thing I counsel in that. That stage. And [00:34:00] number two is don't focus on the what or the how, because often I find we'll say, Yeah, yeah, I'm here to help people. So I think I could be a teacher or this, and we jump straight to the label. Or well, how would I pick up the kids if I did that? [00:34:13] Jennie: Or would I make enough money to cover the rent? And I would just encourage people that are in this situation to. Sit with the why a little bit longer, and just really make sure that you've given that enough time because what I'm seeing now is the marketplace is changing so much and some, a job that you've thought was completely off limits in the past might be remote now, might be, you know, something you can do in, you know, a shared economy in a way that wasn't possible. And then that last piece is as you get ready to leave, you know, really thinking about what you're going to do to really rehab from some of the, the toxicity that you've been dealing with. And that's one of the courses that I run, that's called corporate rehab. It's actually outlined really well in the book. [00:34:52] but the acronym of rehab stands for recognizing your life story, evaluating your patterns, your [00:35:00] relationships, your energy. Healing from anything that that might have been, you know, holding you back arising. And that's the time when you can explore the, the roller skating and the trampoline and and, and different ways to grow and reconnect with yourself. [00:35:13] Jennie: And then build is the last stage where we build new dimensions of your life and your career. Whether that's a sabbatical, whether that's a completely different job, whether that's a different role in your same company, whether that's just a different way you wanna use your time outside of work to feel more purposeful. [00:35:28] and I find that doing that, and I I, for my private coaching clients, I give clients that we build a roadmap together. Just gives people a sense of purpose and direction that they're making these conscious choices in these decisions, in whatever timeframe is good for them. And it's not a forced, well, you just need to ditch this job, or you just need to get away from, you know, that boss and the next you know, place will have, you know, the grass will be greener, which isn't always the case because so much of this is within our own mindsets and patterns that we're lugging with us from each of. [00:35:59] Jennie: [00:36:00] You know, jobs. So those, that's really the, the counsel I would give, people of how to recognize you're in a toxic place or a toxic thing for you, and then the steps to take to try to rehab, and really shift from surviving your life to thriving in it. [00:36:12] Cara: I love that. There's a couple points that you mentioned that I would like to like highlight, and one, it's ultimately redefining success because I think so many people have this X, Y, Z, you know, this laid out plan of what success is, and guess what? You get to make that, you get to make that definition for yourself. [00:36:31] Cara: And so sometimes taking a step back and really saying, I would feel successful if my life looked a certain way in connecting to that. And I think that's that whole idea of like within, what is that going to be? And then what did H stand for again? I forget. [00:36:48] Jennie: Heal mind, body, and spirit. [00:36:50] Cara: Yes. So healing is I think a huge point in, you know, that whole idea of trauma, like you were saying before with toxic, it's the same thing with trauma, [00:37:00] little big. [00:37:00] Cara: It just kind of depends where we're at in that space and how that affects us. And I find that healing is a huge part, especially if there is any sort of burnout, a part of it because you got to burnout because of something and there was something holding you. In that healing or that trauma or that toxic relationship. [00:37:20] Cara: And so while I think all. The letters in rehab in, you know, what rehab stands for you are important. But those really stood out because I think they're important to really focus on and really be the best version of yourself. And that's ultimately what it is. Like you wanna wake up and you wanna feel like the best version. [00:37:38] Cara: You wanna feel like you're doing the best as a mom, as a, you know, an employee or an entrepreneur or whatever it is that you stand for. And so I think that's, that's. I would love to kind of touch on the idea of the spark and how you kind of reinvigorate that spark. [00:37:55] Jennie: Yeah. So, I think some of it is what we had talked about in terms of, you know, [00:38:00] getting back in touch with the things that light you up. We spend a lot of time looking at the things. You energy versus the things that take it away. It could be people, it could be places. so much of it is really reconnecting to what your purpose is in terms of, you know, the why. [00:38:15] and then reorienting what you're doing in terms of mindsets and patterns to really focus on that. Because anything that gives you that meaning can just reconnect you, you know, to, whether. Staying in the same job or whether it's doing something different, you just have a better sense of how you can turn that spark on, on a regular basis. [00:38:33] Jennie: And I think some of it is, you know, getting a better sense of what burnout really is. because that's a big piece of it too, of knowing whether, you know, it's, it's three things. It's exhaustion, inefficiency of feeling like nothing that you. You know, really matters. and then, you know, being disillusioned and I think all three of those things together, you know, really can, can lead you to feeling like, I, I I can't do it anymore. [00:38:57] Jennie: And there is a lot that needs to be done [00:39:00] from a mind, body, and spirit piece on that all three together because it is retraining your, your mental space and your pathways to say, when I encounter the same situation again, what will I do? Or how am I gonna train my mind to think differently? which is, there's all kinds of fun things to talk about there, in your body. [00:39:17] Jennie: A lot of times what I find is that women will come to me and they'll say, I really need a career change. And when we start talking about things, they'll mention, Oh, yeah. And I also have this issue with my hairs falling out, but it's totally unrelated. Or I also had this issue with, you know, I thought I had a heart attack, but it wasn't, it was just stress, you know, But, but I don't think that's my job. [00:39:34] Jennie: You know, And they're, they're just completely. you know, separating those two. So tapping into what your body's trying to tell you because it's giving us signals all the time. and then from a spiritual perspective, there's all kinds of things you can do to heal in that realm. whether it's meditation and yoga and all kinds of stuff. [00:39:49] Jennie: So, I think that you're right that it's so important to understand what's happened and then look at the different types of things you can do to really relate those spark, whether it's purpose. Whether [00:40:00] it's looking at, you know, the healing itself from the hustle culture, or whether it's really looking at what's the, the role of burnout and how can you actually make sure that you're, you're changing some of those triggers for yourself. [00:40:10] Cara: I think that's so insightful and a, a couple points that I wanted to highlight as well is the idea of the body and when there are symptoms that is communication, it's trying to communicate with you, that's something you are doing needs to change. And so it's having that self-awareness and. [00:40:26] Cara: Finding the right tools to help you kind of get past that. And we can't always do that by ourselves. And that was my own journey of, you know, that's a whole nother episode of understanding that my, when I was having symptoms, it was my body saying like, how you're processing stress, how you are dealing with this stuff is saying, I can't do this, so we need to figure out how to change this and. [00:40:49] Cara: You know that, how that kind of translates into that whole spark idea. I read, I wanna say it was Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. I'm very bad about who I quote. But, in it was [00:41:00] ultimately the whole idea of there was a woman who liked her job, but she didn't have that spark. And all it took her was ice skating before she went to work, you know, at least once a week. [00:41:12] Jennie: Yeah. [00:41:12] Cara: And so it's just finding of where can you find that spark Again, you don't have to leave your job, but if you can just make that time so precious to you and say, I am going to do this once a week. You know, going to the spa after six months of not carrying your caring for yourself is not going to cure burnout. [00:41:30] Cara: It won't, There's so much that you have to do other than that, and it is caring for yourself, putting, making yourself a priority. [00:41:37] Jennie: Absolutely. [00:41:38] Cara: Yeah. And I would love to transition into the idea of that thriving and how to kind of get yourself into who you really envision yourself that you wanna be. It's taken me sitting with myself to say, what kind of mom, what kind of entrepreneur? [00:41:55] Cara: Sitting with that, having that vision, and then stepping into that, thriving into that. And so, do [00:42:00] you have any insight on. [00:42:01] Jennie: Yeah. Interesting. What you said a little bit earlier about abundance and receiving and the feminine versus the masculine energy I think comes back here. I mean, so much of the work that I, I focus on and what I hear from women is we get so focused on the survival mentality and that keeps us trapped in this hustle culture. [00:42:18] Jennie: And as you start to shift some of the mindsets and behaviors and patterns to shift into thriving, a lot of it is really about receiving and not closing yourself off. Open to whether it's the signals from your body telling you what you need. but a lot of it is also just aligning more to that purpose, of looking at what's your why and why are you here and, and how can you align your job, your volunteer activities, the way you're parenting, the, how you're showing up in all of those roles to be more aligned to what your yourself is calling for, which is really what it it comes down to, is listening to what you actually want and then acting on. [00:42:56] Cara: I love that. And I would love to just talk a little bit about [00:43:00] your book That's, uh, that is out today. [00:43:03] Jennie: Yes. So it's uh, corporate rehab, Ditch the Hustle Culture. And Thrive Again is the title. And really what we examine is a lot of the things we've been talking about, but how women, especially, although the, the process works for women and men, um, but how we get addicted to the hustle culture and how that really keeps us. [00:43:20] Jennie: Holding, holding us back from these, meeting, these very human needs that we have. and then how you can actually start to shift and do your own rehab from the hustle, culture, addiction. and that really goes through the rehab framework of, you know, recognize, evaluate, heal, arise, and build. And then we end with a call to action for, corporate America. [00:43:40] Jennie: For any places of leadership of how we could be more whole as we lead across the boardroom and across the living room. And I'm really excited to share it with others and, and hear everybody's reactions [00:43:51] Cara: Where can they find this book? [00:43:53] Jennie: on the website. so it's at www.corporate-rehab.com. It'll be available on [00:44:00] Amazon and in a number of stores, and I'm so excited to be with you for the launch. [00:44:04] Cara: Yay. That's so exciting. And what are some other ways that the audience can work with you? [00:44:09] Jennie: Yeah, so I do private coaching for, women. So we do one-on-one coaching, or group coaching in a number of courses. It's both for. Women looking to rehab from the hustle culture, but also for entrepreneurs looking to rise. So I have rehab, reset and rise as courses that are available. And then also with speaking, I'm doing a lot of keynotes and, talking to a couple of workplaces right now in terms of coaching their high potential talent, both men and women, and actually doing some speeches to, a lot of the female leadership groups. [00:44:41] Jennie: So, so excited to be doing that. All the information's on the website, if you're interested in having me join your. [00:44:47] Cara: Awesome. Well, I will make sure the book, all your courses are on the show notes, so if anyone wants to find Jenny, you can do that, on my website or write in the show notes and it was such a pleasure chatting with you. Thank [00:45:00] you so much for coming on the show. [00:45:01] Jennie: Thanks so much for having me. This was fun. [00:45:03] Jennie: Thanks Cara. [00:45:04] Cara: Thanks Jenny. We'll chat soon. [00:45:05] Cara: Thank you so much for joining me this week. If this was your first time. Welcome. And if you've joined me for previous episodes, thank you so much for coming back before you go, make sure you share my podcast with a friend or subscribe. If you haven't yet. Those. A few seconds make a big impact on my podcast and I'd be grateful for the support. I absolutely love Interview with Jenny. We're both bringing awareness on how the hustle culture is burning out women and how it's time for that to change. If you want to find out how to connect with her, check the show notes and all the links mentioned caradempsey.com./32 we'll chat soon